Chapter 26B: Immoral maybe?

Detail from "The Kiss" (1907-08) by Gustav Klimt

Frankie is reluctant to tell her mother and her girlfriends about her relationship with Henry because, although she doesn't love him, she is engaged in an intimate physical relationship with him. As she puts it, "it felt vaguely wrong, immoral maybe, to touch a man you didn't love, to sleep in his arms for hours and watch him leave before dawn to go to work" (336).

Presumably, they are doing more than holding hands. Independent of their marital status, do you believe that it is immoral for her to be in such a relationship with him if she doesn't love him?

Chapter 26C: Ron Kovic

Detail from movie poster for Born on the Fourth of July (1989), directed by Oliver Stone, starring Tom Cruise

On two occasions, The Women refers in passing to Ron Kovic, who is also depicted in the movie Born on the Fourth of July (1989; starring Tom Cruise).

For this prompt: Watch the movie to learn more about the Vietnam Veterans Against the War protests referenced in this chapter. Do some research on the film's accuracy. Report here on your evaluation of the movie (but no spoilers!).

Warning (from Common Sense media): "This mature drama contains extreme and disturbing verbal and physical violence and graphic scenes depicting the Vietnam War and the protests against it. Women and children are shown lying dead in pools of their own blood. Soldiers are shown falling to the ground after being hit in the head by bullets; gory injuries are shown. They should also know that the film includes scenes of sexual impotence and prostitution, with bare breasts shown. Profanity is frequent -- especially "f--k" and its variations. Alcoholism, PTSD, and the myriad frustrations of veterans are addressed." 

Chapter 28: "This jabble"

Still image from "American Pastoral"(2016), directed by Ewan McGregor and starring McGregor and Dakota Fanning;
 adapted from Philip Roth’s 1997 novel. Image: Richard Foreman/Lionsgate.

Frankie's father says some things to her that she finds difficult to stomach: "Your pride should come from caring for your husband and child . . . You're upsetting me with this jabble, Frankie. You're my daughter. You had no business going to war and I told you so at the time" (359).

Putting aside your views on whether you sympathize more with Frankie or with her father on this particular issue of whether women should serve in the military in war time, what should someone do when one of their family members holds an opinion on a contentious issue that is diametrically opposed to their own?

Is it ever acceptable to sever the relationship with a close family member entirely, either because it is too emotionally upsetting or because you find the opposing viewpoint abhorrent?

Or should you always try to keep the conversation alive in hopes that you might persuade them to change their mind?

Or should you just do everything in your power to avoid the contentious issue?

Chapter 27: "I don't . . . think I'm ready"

"The Wedding Register"(1920) by Edmund Blair Leighton

Frankie has lots of reasons to marry Henry, but there is one thing holding her back: she doesn't love him.

Given what you've read so far, would you recommend that she move forward with her marriage plans?

Would it be immoral for her to marry him?

Don't answer this question set if you've already read ahead in the book.

See Jerry Maguire (1996) for a film exploration of this question.

Chapter 30: "I couldn't let you go"

Don't answer this question set until after you've read Chapter Thirty. Spoilers ahead!

Also: don't answer it if you're read past Chapter Thirty and have more information about what happens.

Rye claims that he lied to Frankie about his marital status because he loved Frankie, he believed that she loved him (or could love him), and he knew that if she knew he was married, she wouldn't enter into a relationship with him.

If you knew that the only way you could have a relationship with a person you believe might be the "love of your life," would lying to them be worse than not having a chance for a relationship with them at all? Simply put, is it okay to lie for a chance to find the love of your life?

Optional extra: see Sliding Doors (1998) for a film exploration of this question (not a requirement for answering the questions above).

Chapter 31: "Soccer ball balloon"

Don't answer this question set until after you've read Chapter Thirty-One. Spoilers ahead!

Also: don't answer it if you're read past Chapter Thirty-One and have more information about what happens.

After Frankie encounters Rye's wife at the hospital, Frankie claims "The only person [Frankie] hated more than Rye was herself" (406).

Do the events revealed in this chapter make Rye an unredeemable character? Is there a world in which his decisions are defensible?

Should Frankie tell Rye's wife, Missy, what she knows about Rye?

Chapter 32A: "You don't belong here"

Scene from "Hidden Figures" (2016) starring Taraji Henson

When Frankie tries to attend a therapy session for Vietnam vets, she finds that she is the only woman in the room. Soon, one of them tells her that she doesn't belong because "This is for vets who saw action in 'Nam"(413).

Have you ever found yourself alone in a space where you were visibly different than everyone else in the space and you were not an authority (like an older person teaching younger children)? Were you made to feel unwelcome? Did you feel unwelcome even if nobody went out of their way to make you feel unwelcome? Describe the experience.

Alternatively, have you ever found yourself in a space with someone who is visibly different from you and from everyone else in the room and seen how someone made an effort to exclude the person who was different from everyone else? Describe the experience.