Don't answer this question set until after you've read Chapter Thirty. Spoilers ahead!
Also: don't answer it if you're read past Chapter Thirty and have more information about what happens.
Rye claims that he lied to Frankie about his marital status because he loved Frankie, he believed that she loved him (or could love him), and he knew that if she knew he was married, she wouldn't enter into a relationship with him.
If you knew that the only way you could have a relationship with a person you believe might be the "love of your life," would lying to them be worse than not having a chance for a relationship with them at all? Simply put, is it okay to lie for a chance to find the love of your life?
Optional extra: see Sliding Doors (1998) for a film exploration of this question (not a requirement for answering the questions above).
If you truly love someone, then why would you want to lie to them? It opens the door towards causing them pain in the future. For me, it wouldn't be enough justification to lie for the chance at finding the love of my life. Because a love based on lies isn't really true love at all.
ReplyDeleteQuestion- To begin a relationship with a lie has created a precedent that everything said is untrustworthy. Lies can never stay hidden in the dark forever; they have a way of finding the light. When it is discovered that the entire relationship is based on a lie, it can cause discourse in the mind of the person who was lied to. From that point on, they will look back and wonder if anything else will be a lie. They will wonder if they could make and keep such a big lie, what else could they be lying about. The relationship will never be the same, and the distrust created could ultimately lead to the entire relationship crumbling.
ReplyDelete“Is it okay to lie for a chance to find the love of your life?” Kant would say no, but he also wasn’t very good with the ladies.
ReplyDeleteThis is a question of morality, more specifically, a question of if the ends define the means, except the ends are not promised in this scenario. If I were to be on a date which was not going the best due to my social ineptitude, then I ask “What is your favorite TV show” to which they reply “how i met your mother”, it would be frowned upon for me to say “no way me too!” having not seen the show myself. But based on her dating profile I believe they could really be “the one,” and this response gained me some traction in the situation, livened up the conversation, and became by salvation all from this one fabrication of a quotation. I say it. We hit it off. That night and the following day, I proceed to binge the entire series, which would end up becoming my favorite show. The lie was only a lie for one day, as if I were to repeat the statement the next day it would be truthful. Let's even go as far as to say that we get married and eventually die of old age in our cottage while holding hands, because THAT is just how in love we were. After our honeymoon I even tell them about the lie and following events, and they respond “thank goodness you lied! I was about to make up a family emergency and get out of there!” Now everyone affected by the lie agrees that it was a positive action that led to positive results. All parties involved agree that the means are justified by the end in this situation.
Alternatively, after the honeymoon, I tell them about the lie and their response is a bit different. “Seriously? Our entire relationship was built on this, this was the reason I agreed to a second date in the first place, to talk about the show more. You know what? No. I won’t stand for this. We’re done. I can’t believe you.” The relationship has failed, we divorce, they take half, and now we both view the relationship as a massive waste of time and resources. The end does not justify the means.
Is morality on a case-by-case basis, to where it is okay to lie in some situations but not others? Or is lying always wrong? I am sure we have all lied, and we have all faced the consequences of a discovered lie. We may say we do not lie, but there are always scenarios in which we will defy our own expectations. If you look back at the first section of the hypothetical, near the bottom of the first paragraph, she was about to lie too. If I had not lied to her, she would have lied to me. So is the universal morality broken by one of us, or are our individual moral codes still sound, at least to ourselves?
In all honesty, I do hold it to be wrong to lie, even about something as superficial as a favorite TV show, as a casual means to an end. A relationship built on anything but trust is a relationship built to fall. However, if the lie never gets found out and we do trust each other whole-heartedly and we live happily ever after…
Just kidding. With as many fish as there are in the sea, no one should need to try to justify lying for a chance to have a relationship with one specific fish.
It truly is not okay to lie for a chance at love for many reasons. First, I don't believe starting a relationship based on a lie will ever lead to a healthy and honest relationship. In my opinion, if you love someone and want a chance to be with that person, then the best thing to do is be truthful and allow them to see you as you are; otherwise, the relationship is built on lies and eventually filled with insecurity. Second, what happens when that lie is brought to light? There is a high chance of everything falling apart, depending on how significant it was, and ending up in a more devastating situation than before. If I felt my only option for love was to lie, I would either give up on it or I would change the things holding me back rather than lying about them.
ReplyDeleteYou cannot ever convince me that lying to someone (especially someone you feel like is the love of your life) is okay! Nothing good comes out of lying, you’re being immorally wrong, you are creating more problems by lying, and you clearly are being selfish and untrustworthy. Is that someone you feel like you’d want to be with? Absolutely not. So be honest with one another as well as yourself, truthfully talk things out with one another because that’s the only way a problem gets fixed. Put others before yourself and your own selfish desires. I think that this section of the book is the perfect example of what our flesh and worldly desires want. Rye’s flesh wants to be with Frankie because it excites him and to me seems like he feels Frankie as new and fun. But what about Rye’s wife, if he were to drop her just to get a new exciting feeling again, was it ever true love in the first place! Or was Rye’s “love” based off of the feeling of passion and excitement. Love is not a feeling, it is a choice. A choice to stay committed to one another through the good and bad times, and through the times where you don’t feel passionately about your spouse. Because love based off of feelings is never truly sustainable.
ReplyDeleteYou cannot ever convince me that lying to someone (especially someone you feel like is the love of your life) is okay! Nothing good comes out of lying, you’re being immorally wrong, you are creating more problems by lying, and you clearly are being selfish and untrustworthy. Is that someone you feel like you’d want to be with? Absolutely not. So be honest with one another as well as yourself, truthfully talk things out with one another because that’s the only way a problem gets fixed. Put others before yourself and your own selfish desires. I think that this section of the book is the perfect example of what our flesh and worldly desires want. Rye’s flesh wants to be with Frankie because it excites him and to me seems like he feels Frankie as new and fun. But what about Rye’s wife, if he were to drop her just to get a new exciting feeling again, was it ever true love in the first place! Or was Rye’s “love” based off of the feeling of passion and excitement. Love is not a feeling, it is a choice. A choice to stay committed to one another through the good and bad times, and through the times where you don’t feel passionately about your spouse. Because love based off of feelings is never truly sustainable. (Sorry I submitted my first answer without putting my name)
ReplyDeleteIn this situation, I do not believe Rye acted out of love but rather out of selfishness and desire. He pursued what he wanted despite knowing that Frankie would not agree to a relationship while he was still committed to another woman. By disregarding her wishes, he placed his own satisfaction above her autonomy. Even if he believed his intentions were rooted in love, he was aware of the inevitable outcome: he would either have to abandon Frankie or death would put an end to their love story. Entering the relationship under those conditions was fundamentally unfair to her. Rye’s actions suggest that he never truly loved Frankie, because genuine love would not have begun with such disregard for her well-being.
ReplyDeleteQ1: I do not understand why someone would lie to a person that they would want to be in a relationship with. Most of the time, it all surfaces anyway (like it did). I do not think it is okay, nor do I think it is smart.
ReplyDeleteThe foundation of a relationship should never be built on a lie. Especially a lie as big as that. I think that you should be honest with someone and if that person likes the real you it’s probably a sign that you should give a relationship a shot. You aren’t only lying to the other person when you do something like that, you’re lying to yourself. You are basically saying to yourself that you are a perfect match for that person when you aren’t. If you try and make yourself something you aren’t then you’ve lost yourself. I think that it’s amazing that she eventually learned the truth, as devastating as it was, because she finally realized that he was making himself out to be something he wasn’t. I think it’s great because she gets a chance to step back and realize that Rye isn’t as good of a man as she thought he was. I do not think it’s okay to lie to someone for a chance at a relationship with them. You hurt both parties by doing so.
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