Only respond to this set of questions after you have read chapter 10.
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| "The Meeting of Jacob and Rachel"(1850) by William Dyce |
In chapter 10, Frankie reflects on her relationship with Jamie, who is married. It would be a violation of Jamie's marriage vows for him to enter into a relationship with Jamie. For that reason, many would consider it immoral for him to do so. But what about Frankie? Would it be immoral for her to enter into a sexual relationship with Jamie, since she is not bound by any marital vows? The vows are his, not hers, right?
In a traditional society, sex outside of marriage is considered immoral, but is that a standard that can or should be used to judge the actions of others?
Or is it simply a personal decision and a matter of taste?
Do you believe that younger Americans have largely abandoned that traditional belief?
In what ways might that be seen either as a sign of progress or as a sign of decline?
Is a declining belief in universal moral standards a sign of progress or a sign of decline?
Section 1 It would also be immoral for Frankie to enter into a relationship with Jamie knowingly. If she didn't know he was married and they got together, then it would be a different story. However, if someone knowingly enters into a married relationship without the consent of one of the partners, then that is also adultery on their behalf. It's immoral on their behalf too.
ReplyDeleteSection 2 and 3 That very much depends on context. Like consent, topic of discussion, even religious background. Personally, I try not to pass harsh judgement, but at the same time, I have personal experiences that make that really and truly difficult.
Section 4 It's complicated. I want to believe things are better but as a victim of this topic it's hard to make a solid argument I can stand on. Some do believe in more traditional values. Yet others do not. I don't think they've abandoned it altogether, rather I think a lot of them choose to wait longer to settle into something long term so as to avoid getting “trapped” in an unhappy marriage.
Section 5 Some may see marriage as an outdated contractual obligation. To them, they may want a more loose society with less strings attached in the event that something goes wrong they have an out. They may see a downfall of traditional marriage as an opportunity for growth, upheaval, or even different kinds of protections. Others may see marriage as a life long commitment that is more than a partnership. It's a lifelong love where two people bind themselves to always take care of and respect each other. They'd see a loose society as a downfall of traditional values, and an invitation of chaos into a marriage.
Section 6 Universal moral standards can be a mixed bag. I think it depends on which ones we are talking about. If we are talking about the universal moral standard about murdering people (outside of self defense) being bad, I would definitely say that's a decline. Cheating on people is becoming more common, which means people must be able to justify it. I would say that's a decline. But there are some I would call positives too. For instance, Reciprocity. I don't think we do this all the time now, and I think that's a good thing. If we always tried to give exactly what we got, there would be nothing left for us to give of ourselves. This doesn't mean we can't be generous, but we can't pour from an empty cup. Our generation is realizing that.
Peyton Spahn
ReplyDelete"Would it be immoral for her to enter into a sexual relationship with Jamie, since she is not bound by any marital vows?"
Yes it would be very immoral for Frankie to enter into a sexual relationship with Jamie even though she herself is not married/with anyone. When you are in a relationship or married to someone, you are to stay fully committed and loyal to that person. Marital vows express just that, the commitment, the faithfulness, love, and intentions that you and your spouse share with each other. However, if Frankie did not know Jamie was married and got into a sexual relationship unknowingly, that is a completely different situation since she is unaware, but if she continued the relationship after she found out, that would be considered immoral.
Question 1. I believe that it would be immoral for Frankie to enter a sexual relationship with Jamie because of his marital vows, especially because she knows that he is married. The best analogy I can think of is a group of kids trying to pressure another kid into doing something that they are not allowed to do. The kids doing the peer pressuring are not directly affected by the other kid’s restrictions, but they are still trying to get the other kid to break the rules established for him. In this situation, Frankie is the group of kids doing the peer pressuring and Jamie is the kid being peer pressured. If Frankie were to pursue a sexual relationship with Jamie, they would both be equally in the wrong, Jamie for cheating, and Frankie for knowing that Jamie was married and pursuing a relationship anyway.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2. I believe that the partaking in or lack of sex outside of marriage can serve as good indication to judge the actions of others upon. Sex is meant to be a sacred action between a husband and a wife, bonding them together in a way that no other action can. Saving your first time for your partner is an incredible act of self-control, but not doing so proves that someone either doesn’t have the willpower to control themselves or simply doesn’t care enough to preserve their virginity, shedding some light onto their other actions in the process.
Question 3. As I Christian, I believe that this is not simply a matter of taste, but I do acknowledge that my point of view is heavily influenced by my religion. Growing up, I was taught about the beauty of sex in its appropriate context (this started when I was about 13-14, I wasn’t learning about this when I was like 6) and how it can so easily be tainted by human desires. I can understand if someone else sees it more as personal preference, but I would disagree with their point of view.
Question 4. I do believe that young Americans have largely abandoned this traditional belief in exchange for a more carefree, do-as-I-please way of life. This can be seen through the growing cases of one-night stands and teen pregnancies. Young people no longer care about fostering that special bond with their spouse in exchange for having sex simply for fun with whoever they want, sometimes ignoring the consequences in the process.
Question 5. I think this shows a sign of decline because of the impact it has on the health of marriages in the future. If that special bond is never formed, then more couples will end up divorcing, leading to more children potentially not growing up with a strong father or mother figure in their lives to help them make good decisions. This will then lead them to make poor decisions due to the lack of strong parental figures, keeping this cycle going.
Question 6. I believe that decline in universal moral standards is a sign of decline. This is because lowered standards will lead to more crime from said standards and more actions based purely on impulse rather than actions being thought out before being acted upon.
Cameron Bailey
ReplyDeleteSection 4: I do believe that younger americans have mostly abandoned the concept of celibacy. It has become more and more common for peoples views to shift from old and tradiational views of sexual interaction being strictly for marriage, and as a sacred thing to be cherished in moderation. The view of it is more commonly being shifted to a purely pleasurable expierence and there being nothing wrong with performing this pleasure all you want. It's been glorified in media and to the public and is more normalized than it was way back when.
Question 1: It would be immoral for Frankie to enter a sexual relationship with Jamie. Even though the vows that Jamie made are not Frankie's, she still knows he made the vows and would take part in the vows being broken.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2: I don't think having premarital sex should subject you to judgement by others. I don't really think anything should bring you judgement from other people except in extreme cases. We have no right to judge other people for decisions that don't affect us. I personally do think premarital sex is wrong but I have no right to judge people who think otherwise.
Question 3: I do believe that younger people have started to stray from the traditional belief that premarital sex is wrong. Today it is almost a part of the culture and it is very common.
Question 4: I think it is more a sign of decline. In my opinion it just isn't right. Your body is a temple and sex is a part of your body that should only be enjoyed with your spouse.
Question 5: I think it definitely depends on the morals being broken, but in this case I see it as a decline. I personally see it as a good moral and one that should be followed. Sex is not very sanctified anymore and it is almost become expected in a relationship.
In a traditional society, sex outside of marriage is considered immoral, but is that a standard that can or should be used to judge the actions of others?
ReplyDeleteI do not think someone's choice of whether they have sex outside of marriage or not is something that should be dependent on who they are as people, and the actions they make throughout their life. Mind you, it is their own life, and what people decide to do, whether they wait to have sex until marriage or not, does not give reason to judge someone's character for it. While yes, some people are inherently bad, that action is not what makes them bad, nor does it determine a person's character. What other people do with and in their own lives is their complete choice, and it is not something they should be judged for as people if no wrong is being done.
In chapter 10, Frankie reflects on her relationship with Jamie, who is married. It would be a violation of Jamie's marriage vows for him to enter into a relationship with Jamie. For that reason, many would consider it immoral for him to do so. But what about Frankie? Would it be immoral for her to enter into a sexual relationship with Jamie, since she is not bound by any marital vows? The vows are his, not hers, right?
ReplyDeleteIn a traditional society, sex outside of marriage is considered immoral, but is that a standard that can or should be used to judge the actions of others?
I do not believe that sex outside of marriage is a standard that should be used to judge the actions of others. I might be biased because I am a Christian, but I do not believe it is our right to judge anyone. I believe that should be left up to our Creator.
Or is it simply a personal decision and a matter of taste?
I believe it is a personal decision, everyone views sex differently. I feel a lot of the decision is based on how people are raised or what they believe about the matter.
Do you believe that younger Americans have largely abandoned that traditional belief?
Yes, I do believe younger Americans have largely abandoned the traditional belief. This topic is very controversial but I believe the gravity of sex and the importance of the act has been completely forgotten by many people my age.
In what ways might that be seen either as a sign of progress or as a sign of decline?
As I previously stated I do not judge anyone for their choices. But, personally I believe that the amount of sex, and sexual partners my generation has now is a sign of decline. Sex with many partners brings lust and the more lust the harder it is to stay loyal. I believe sex is a very special, very intimate thing, and I believe my generation has diminished that.
Is a declining belief in universal moral standards a sign of progress or a sign of decline?
I believe a declining belief in universal moral standards is a major sign of decline.
Q1: I believe that Frankie would be in the wrong if she pursued a relationship with Jamie. I believe this because of the fact that she knew he was married during the story, if she was unaware of the fact, I don't believe she should be held accountable for the action. The vows are his to follow, but I think knowingly causing a breach of trust like cheating is the same value of immorality as cheating is.
ReplyDeleteQ2: I believe that the belief of traditional society of sex outside of marriage is a valid standard. I find cheating to be a breach of trust with my partner, I know if I found that my girlfriend was cheating on me, I would be devastated. I do not wish that pain upon others.
Q3: It could be a personal decision, I think my opinion is likely the most popular consensus with cheating. But open-relationships and other things like that are prevalent in the world, so that belief on cheating is absolutely not shared with all.
Q4: I think the belief has become relaxed over time. It is easy to see cheating happen today, especially with the use of social media. I think here in Oklahoma, the belief is still very prevalent in society.
Q5: I think it could be viewed as both progress and decline. If you heavily believe in the idea of staying with one person and are less open-minded to, for example, an open-relationship; you would see it as decline. I find it to be progress, as today's generation are adopting their own identity outside of tradition, one that works for their identity. Even though I would not be apart of the practice, I can see the value in it.
Q6: With certain morals, I believe that there should be a universal standard. (Murder, for example) But there remains a grey-area with many moral issues, this is where the progress of adopting your own moral identity can come into play.
Would it be immoral for her to enter into a sexual relationship with Jamie, since she is not bound by any marital vows? The vows are his, not hers, right?
ReplyDeleteYes it would be immoral. Although Frankie is not held to any vows there should be a mutual agreement that she will not be the reason Jamie breaks his vows. Frankie is not held to any marital vows but she is held to her own dignity.
In a traditional society, sex outside of marriage is considered immoral, but is that a standard that can or should be used to judge the actions of others?
I do not believe sex outside of marriage should be used to judge the actions of others. In the past sex outside of marriage was so looked down upon because there was a much larger religious presence. In today's world religion is not as closely followed and sex outside of marriage became normalized.
Is a declining belief in universal moral standards a sign of progress or a sign of decline?
I believe it to be a sign of decline. In today's world people, especially teenagers, are so quick to share their bodies online that it's almost frowned upon if you don't. Modesty is no longer the "policy" and there are children wearing crop tops. However, you could also argue this is a sign of incline. There is more body positivity in the world and more safe spaces for people to feel comfortable in their sexualities and bodies.
I believe that as we have progressed as a society, sex before marriage should not be used to judge others. I understand that if someone who believes and follows the rules of a religion or faith breaks the rules—example being sex before marriage—they will be judged. I may not understand or agree with those values or follow those rules, but if you have agreed to follow them and then break them, then it is only natural you will be judged by your peers. Outside of that, however, I do not believe anyone has the right to judge someone for what they’ve chosen to do with their life, so long as they are safe and do not hurt anyone with their actions. In the case of Frankie sleeping with Jamie despite him being married, I do believe it to be completely immoral. Yes, he made the vows and the promise, but in the end, she is aware of the woman and child she will hurt and the family she will destroy with her actions. That is wrong to me, and that is when I believe anyone can judge. Her and Jamie are both entirely in the wrong.
ReplyDeleteI think an affair would be a sign of immorality and a sign of decline. Whether in marriage or in any type of relationship, if the two people have agreed that they are exclusive for one another - then to betray that exclusivity is to disobey the boundaries of a human, to let go of trust, and regress into a world where respect means nothing. Perhaps marriage can be questioned, but it is my belief that extramarital affairs are immoral and not a sign of societal progress. Perhaps it is more understandable in a situation such as Vietnam, but is not something to be commended nor hoped to be more normative.
ReplyDeleteZachariah Hobia
DeleteQ1: I believe that it would also be immoral on her behalf because she was completely aware that he was married. I would look at this and contemplate differently if he had hidden the fact that he was married and they had sexual relations without her knowledge.
ReplyDeleteQ4: I do believe that some have lost those traditions and values, while others hold them dear. It also honestly depends on location. I think that more people in the bible belt states, like Oklahoma, stick with those values rather than states like New York, which are not as religious as others. I also do not believe that is the greatest thing, as some younger people might get pressured by others (mainly elders) to get married if they have had unwed sexual relations. Especially if it has led to a pregnancy or something of the sort.