Frankie feels disillusioned with Stars and Stripes and with the U.S. the government for not telling the truth about the casualty count: "The America Frankie believed in, the shining Camelot of her youth, was gone, or lost. Or maybe it had always been a lie"(163).
Do you think this evolution in Frankie's thinking is a reflection of the aging process? Is this kind of disillusionment to be expected of most youth as they mature into adulthood and see past the romantic ideals of their childhood?
Or did America itself change into something less lovely during the Vietnam War?
Is "Camelot or a lie" an unfairly polarized characterization of the choices Frankie and other Americans have?
What is achieved and lost by characterizing contemporary America as a "lie" or by characterizing America of the past as a "Camelot"?
Question 1 Part of it may be the aging process, but I think a lot of it is trauma. Trauma and betrayal do a lot to sour the heart. Yeah, a lot of what we thought as kids isn't true, but a lot of the abuse we learn to accept in our adulthood isn't either. Sometimes we actually learn the opposite. Sometimes we can learn that the world is better than we thought. Two things can be true. I'd almost like to think that I hold on to a lot of my childish romantic ideals despite some of what happened. We don't have to let the world tear us apart.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2 America definitely changed, but did it change into something less lovely? I mean, there was so much going on. The Government was doing what I would consider morally wrong things, the people were rebelling on multiple fronts, and others were doing what they could to get by, to serve, to be patriotic. I think all groups saw that change needed to happen, but they helped in the ways they could. Unfortunately when the smoke cleared, it turned civilians against veterans when it shouldn't have. To this day a lot of veterans feel hurt by what happened. It was a very confusing time for people, and seeing how the government portrayed the war, can you blame people for being confused? So, I would say it was undergoing a time of deep change for sure. Change can seem less lovely, but it needs to happen.
Question 3 Yes, because it basically ignores the complete reality that they currently live in. Camelot is a fairytale, lies are just lies. Yet, there's still real life, and the choices we make do impact it.
Question 4 It implies that America of the past was perfect, which it most definitely was not. And it implies the current America, or Vietnam America, only consists of lies. Meanwhile, that was an era of reformation and civil rights advancement.
Question 1: The change in Frankie's thinking is definitely a part of the aging process. She became less naive and more aware of the world around her. I think most of what we believed in as children isn't practical and we come to realize that more as we age.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2: I think America did change a bit during the Vietnam War. I think some of the changes were necessary but they weren't done in the right fashion. Even though America did change I still do think that Frankie did mature and become more aware.
Question 3: I do think it is unfair to compare a fantasy world to harsh reality. America wasn't perfect and no one should be completely surprised when they learn mistakes were made.
Question 4: Referring to past America as Camelot is very unrealistic. This point of view describes past America as almost utopian when it most certainly was not. It implies that America during the Vietnam War was terrible. While America was definitely not perfect during that time, it was far from what it is made out to seem.
This was one of my favorite lines in the entire book. Camelot, as a nickname for the era of JFK as president, was popularized in part due to the Broadway production of Camelot. The story was naturally about the story of England's "True King" and the entering into the golden age, after the dark times of the preceding centuries. This is why I don't think the idea of America being Camelot is sugarcoating the past is true. After decades of turmoil, America seemed to be heading towards a time of peace. It was natural to see the past as the Dark Ages, and the new president as Arthur. Then, the time was bookended with more conflict and war. This meant that initial period is often looked at with rose-colored glasses. The horrors of Vietnam wasn't necessarily the end of Camelot though.
ReplyDeleteIn the Broadway production, the first act ends on a horrible note of Merlin's death and impending doom for Arthur, which is a very different energy to the otherwise light hearted and silly characters. The second act is more dramatic and harrowing for the characters, but is still Camelot. This means that depending on how much you read into it, America and Camelot are still very similar. Like most nations do, they have high and low points. Citizens suffer and search for peace, leaders lie and make mistakes. After Vietnam, America was able to eventually better recognize the dangers of war and international conflict. The media coverage that unfurled helped make the public more aware of how publications could skew information and made the average person more critical of at least one part of the government. However, a lot of people see it differently. This is great!
I think the interoperation of the name for the Camelot era can be so interesting on several levels. After all, Camelot and King Arthur was a story that managed to survive in a period where many people were illiterate and had to trust what they were told. The fact it lived long enough as a legend to continue to influence literature today could be a parallel to how the Vietnam War continues to affect the world now in a similar way.
Do you think this evolution in Frankie's thinking is a reflection of the aging process? Is this kind of disillusionment to be expected of most youth as they mature into adulthood and see past the romantic ideals of their childhood?
ReplyDeleteMost young kids have the idea that their role model can do no wrong. In this instance Frankie's role model is America. She held them to the highest standard and when she learned America did not live up to that standard Frankie was left to question everything she's ever known.
Or did America itself change into something less lovely during the Vietnam War?
America did not change itself because of the war. America always hid things from it's citizens, the war just brought some of those lies to the light.
As children, we willingly believe anything we are told by people we trust and look up to, for we have no reason not to. This phenomenon becomes clear when we consider all the fictional characters we once invested our highest hopes and wishes in. For example, one famous and beloved character that comes to mind is Santa Claus. We would count the days until he would leave his magical North Pole and come rummaging through our houses to bring us our most coveted prizes, rewards we had earned for being the best of children. Back then, this made perfect sense to us; within the laws of our young universe, there were no discernible flaws in our logic. However, as we grew up and our worlds and perceptions expanded, we discovered the heartbreaking truth: Santa Claus was only a figment of our imaginations. As we go through life, we start to encounter more and more of these occurrences, which is a natural part of growing up. Accordingly, we start to see through more of our delusions, and our trust in the words of others lessens. We begin to think more independently and see things that we have known for our entire lives for what they truly are.
ReplyDeleteWhat Frankie experienced with the “Stars and Stripes” was a more severe situation than discovering Santa was not real. She saw her country, her home, and her people no longer through the rose-tinted glasses she had previously worn. She realized that the lies she had been told all her life were unraveling. While it is undeniable that America worsened during Vietnam, at its core it had always been flawed, and in times of war the government revealed its true nature to Frankie. As Frankie expanded her worldview, she saw that America was not always the automatic victor or hero as it had been throughout every war. She saw that it was run by corrupted individuals who did not protect or fairly represent its heroes and citizens. Perhaps America was better during her youth, but is it more accurate to judge someone or something during its best of times or worst? It can be fairly argued that to truly gauge whether someone is good or bad, we must look to see if they maintain their virtue during the worst of times to have a fair evaluation.
Another aspect of this conversation raises the question of what is lost when Frankie views modern America as a lie and remembers her own past as the “good times.” The problem with this perspective is that it erases the many atrocities that occurred before her time. From Frankie’s perspective, America appeared stable, content, and unquestioned; but once the nation entered war, she began to see beyond that illusion. She recognized that the flaws within the American government had always been present, and that her vision of America as a kind of Camelot was never real. What changed was not the country itself, but her own perspective.
I think the shining Camelot of Frankie’s youth has always had some sort of lie going on; I think this could be in part due to the Cold War peaking only twenty years previously, and how it is still affecting the perspectives of many Americans at this time. Although the blatant disregard and continual lying from the American Government, even after they are shown to be liars, is alarming. I think that is the biggest difference during the Vietnam War from previous administrations. Overall, Fra Frankie is growing up, and while if she stayed in America, she would be much more prone to believing the American propaganda, she isn’t in America. Frankie is having to face the hard fact that her government is lying right to the American people’s faces. She is feeling the effects in real time once she returns as well. That was a difficult pill to swallow when suddenly being shown the truth.
ReplyDeleteWithout a doubt I would say America changed into something "less lovely" in the era of the Vietnam War. Although I am not sure if I would call it part of Frankie's aging process. This image/disillusionment provided to those back home acts as sort of a shield to the harsh truth. America wouldn't want those back home to worry, or ever think that they had a chance at losing the war. I wouldn't consider "Camelot or a lie," to to be an unfair way to view the country back then. It is most definitely a question anybody who knew the truth would wonder about. However, America had gone through so much prior to Vietnam conflict, and I see how they would strive to work towards being able to call themselves a Camelot.
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