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| "Zhuangzi dreaming of a butterfly (or a butterfly dreaming of Zhuangzi)"
by Ike No Taiga (1747-1776)
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According to Gottscahll, dreams, like the constructed stories humans read or listen to, function as a kind of "simulation machine" that allows all mammals to rehearse the various ways we might respond to challenges of one kind or another.
Do you find this theory persuasive? Why or why not?
Are you the kind of person who frequently remembers your dreams? Do you think people who have vivid dreams and remember them tend to be different from people who don't in any other ways?
Do you think someone's ability to remember his or her dreams might affect the value those dreams might have for that dreamer as "rehearsals" for challenging situations?
[The video below, which featured a dreaming dog, has been removed.]
The study of dreams is very interesting. I suspect the value of a dream varies from individual to individual, and probably from dream to dream by the same individual. I have found that sometimes (not always) when I go to sleep (easily and not worrying to the degree that it keeps me awake) with a problem, I awake with an idea as to handle the problem It is now believed that we dream not only during the REM stage of sleep, but throughout sleep. It seems likely that dreaming has a healing effect on both mind and body. It would be interesting to know whether day-dreaming has a good or bad effect on the body -- especially since researchers have found that day-dreaming is none mostly by unhappy people. .
ReplyDeleteIf this theory is true, my mind is preparing itself for some pretty strange situations. I have always had pretty vivid dreams, most of the time they could almost be classified as nightmares, but I don’t like to think of them in that way. They follow the basic theory of stories: they have a problem that needs to be solved or some sort of trouble. However mine typically make almost no sense though they will occasionally involve things I had recently heard about or seen. The past few years I’ve been trying to write everything I remember down right as I wake up. The longer I am awake, the more details seem to slip past me. I don’t really think it makes you different or it affects the influence the dreams have as rehearsals because it’s still subconsciously stored in your brain. Similar to déjà vu, I will be in situations that seem familiar because I had a dream I had forgotten about there. My subconscious mind however, remembers it. I think the theory could work, just consciously it is sometimes difficult to find exactly what the challenge is in our dreams.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, Miranda. I have always had outrageous, and at times, strange dreams. If my mind is trying to prepare my body for a real-life situation, then perhaps I read too many fairytales as a child. However, I can see some truth to the theory. Many times I have found myself dreaming about an important event I had the next day and how to handle it. I might have handled it in odd ways while in Neverland, but once back in reality I felt calm and relaxed walking into a situation that I had already "visited."
Delete-Sidney Lewis
I think it's also important to point out that the author mentioned the strange, outrageous dreams are often the only ones we remember; however, there are several other dreams we have which we can't remember, probably because they are more normal and less memorable. If this is the case it is very reasonable that our dreams are preparing us for real-life situations. I'm not sure that it is essential we understand the dreams or know what they are preparing us for; like Miranda said, subconsciously they are still there. We should still know how to handle these situations, because our subconscious and conscious act together. Our conscious takes in the challenge, visualizes it, and understands what is going on around us while our subconscious knows how to deal with the challenge. Perhaps this is why we often go by our "gut" feeling; it is our subconscious using what we learned from our dream lessons.
DeleteI like the points that Darby brings up about the subconscious absorbing what the conscious ignores. It makes sense that we would forget things that could be seen as average and normal and yet vividly remember the dreams that edge on the bizarre. Take last week, for example. I can't remember what I ate or which days I cleaned house or how many shows on TV I watched, because those are all normal and monotonous in my life. I can, however, vividly remember my friend's birthday, because it breaks the continuous pattern. I believe it's the same with dreams. We are constantly training our minds to handle fabricated situations, but have no need to remember them in detail. Instead, we place them on the back burner until we stumble upon the problem our dream simulated, and then let the subconscious do the remembering for us. Also, on an unrelated point, though one I find interesting: has anyone else noticed that nearly everyone that has commented has said that they remember their dreams? I wonder if there's a pattern between the type of people we are and the fact that most of us seem to easily remember dreams, while quite a few of the people I know don't.
DeleteI also agree with Darby's comments. Relative to Courtney's question about the type of people who remember their dreams, and those who do not, I wonder whether people remember the dreams from their REM sleep and less likely to remember dreams during the other periods of sleep. Regardless of that answer, I especially agree with Darby's comment regarding the close relationship between the conscious and the unconscious, which reminds me of Carl Jung's idea of a universal human subconscious, and raises the the question, do we all have the same type of dreams over time? (I especially enjoy discussing the mystery of dreams, the stories of how various cultures view dreams, and the scientific discoveries continuing to be made and revised about dreams..)
DeleteWhile on paper the theory seems convincing, it appears much less so when compared to my own life. I once dreamed of washing my hands, nothing else, just pumping soap into my palm, lathering, and rinsing. Was that preparing me to wash my hands in the future? Probably not. More often than not, I’m not even a character in my dreams. Last week, I dreamt that my highschool freshman English teacher and Harry Potter took a road trip. It was more likely that the dream was a reflection of my desire to watch Harry Potter and drive to Comic-Con than an instructional scene meant to teach me how to properly road trip.
ReplyDeleteOn another note, I am not sure how those who remember dreams differ from those who don’t. I, as one might infer from the above, dream vividly, with great recollection, whereas a close friend of mine does not. Between the two of us, there are great differences in personality. I am more creative, social, and diligent than he is. However, I doubt that that has anything to do with whether or not we remember our dreams. Undoubtedly, my friend would glean from remembering his dreams, as I have in some instances, but not in the way proposed in this book.
I agree that when reading about the theory, it seems pretty persuasive. However, I personally can't relate to the theory because my dreams usually consists of things that have happened in the past, such as bits and pieces of my day, and I can't recall a time that I've dreamed about something that was going to happen in the future that would allow me to “rehearse” how I would respond a challenge. With that being said, not everyone dreams like I do, and theories about dreams are very diverse and interesting because everyone dreams about different things. So one theory may fit the dreams of one group of people and not correlate to the dreams of another.
DeletePeople who vividly remember their dreams may be different than people who don’t based on how one looks at it. For example, if someone frequently has vivid nightmares that causes them to wake up in the middle of the night, they may seem more tired or paranoid than someone who sleeps soundly through the night and seldom remembers their dreams. However, that is the only example I can think of that would cause people to be different based on the recollection of their dreams.
This is a part of why I disagree with the theory. There is not only one way to dream. Perhaps the theory is relevant to Gottschall, but it definitely is not to me.
DeleteOn the subject of whether or not the above theory is correct, I will admit that I have had a few dreams in which I "practice" for what could happen. I have had a dream where I fall asleep while I am driving and I cause a wreck. When I regain consciousness, I am told that I am the only survivor. All of my family and friends were in that car. It was an absolutely horrifying experience. This dream could possibly become a reality. Except for everyone being in the car with me; my car is NOT that big.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I only have realistic dreams like this every so often. The majority of my dreams are either about things that could never happen or about something that I would have no reason to "practice." I once had a dream that I was a dwarf with a blue beard. All I ever did was bounce on my head. What is that preparing me for, Gottschall? As a matter of fact, a couple of nights ago I had a dream where I just laughed. And laughed. And laughed some more. I guess I needed more practice laughing?
This theory may be true for some people. I have heard people talk about some very realistic dreams with subjects ranging from finding a bargain at their favorite store to being chased by a murderer. However, I highly doubt that those are the only kinds of dreams that these people had. Therefore, I have to conclude that this theory is wrong in some aspects. Although it may coincide with some of our dreams, there are definitely some dreams that are not "rehearsals" in any sense of the word.
I find the theory that dreams are an adaptation akin to a “simulation machine” to be persuasive. During the course of my lifetime, I have experienced several situations in which I have recalled past dreams, kind of like déjà vu. While some may say that this statement is silly, I propose another question in return: Is accessing knowledge from a past dream any different than accessing knowledge learned from some form of previously read literature…? Personally, I remember a lot of my dreams. Many of them are logical, not simply pointless montages. While I am not sure what causes some individuals to remember more of their dreams, I don’t think that it is linked to any developmental differences. I know several highly intelligent individuals that simply cannot remember their dreams. Assuming that an individual’s dreams are not improbable or pointless, I do believe that the ability to remember said dreams could benefit him or her.
ReplyDelete- Dillon Rea
I find this theory to be persuasive. That being said I don't see the challenges we face in our dreams as realistic. I have dreamed about stressful situations that I had the next day but, and this may just be me, the way the situation turned out in my dream was at times ridiculous. I don't frequently remember my dreams. However I feel like if you remember your dream or not depend on how much you have going on or how much stress you are under. I don't remember my last dream but I am also immediately going from the time I wake up and sometimes don't stop going until I go to bed.
ReplyDeleteI do believe this theory to be very true. Though not in the sense that the dream is preparing someone for that exact situation. More so as if they are tapping into our unconscious mind, finding matters that sit near and dear to us. Just as Gottchall pointed out in his dream in the desert that it may be more about his daughters' importance compared to a game on TV or a book than him not being able to save one from falling off of a cliff. I also believe that the more a person remembers their dreams, the more it meant to them in some secret, hidden way. I feel that dreams are just our unconscious mind trying to speak to us in strange codes to somehow get us to listen. Maybe this is just me but I know for a fact that I am more likely to listen to the three-headed serpent juggling torches and shooting flowers than the little girl saying "Hey, look over here!".
ReplyDelete-Maranda Clymer
In my opinion this theory could be correct in the cases where a person dreams of something more realistic such as a day at work or school. However,usually I have found dreams to be very unrealistic. From defying universal laws such as gravity, to experiencing alternate dimensions, and even sometimes becoming someone or SOMETHING else, my dreams have always been reality breaking. Even from years back, I still have memories of dreams like this. For instance, one time I had a dream that I was walking down a narrow red brick paved city street sometime during what seemed like mid-afternoon in the springtime. I can vaguely recall that I was carrying a duck, but not what it looked like. As I walked down the street a bit further, I went into a shop of some sort on the left-hand side that had an a green awning over it. As I went inside, I proceeded to trade the duck with a tall blacksmith-like man with a tan complexion who then went to the back of his somewhat small general goods store and brought an average-sized iron anvil. After that, for some reason I faintly recall feeling like I had been cheated and as I walked out the store (oddly enough while carrying the anvil with ease) I was swept up by a glass-like tidal wave. That was how the dream ended, and I'm not very sure how that could possibly help me function better in day to day life. As for those who have vivid dreams and that remember them, they will most likely end up thinking or reacting differently from those who don't. It could possibly be a question of how imaginative or in other words how creative a person is. For instance,someone closely connected with the arts such as music or visual arts in general may tend to have more vivid dreams. Likewise,someone who spends their time constantly in thought may be more likely to have those sorts of dreams, as stirring up ideas conscientiously would surely leave more information to be picked apart and put back together randomly when a person went unconscious. In this case a dream would just be a collage of random information put together,and the more information a person's mind had to work with,the better "collage" or dream it might make.
ReplyDeleteI rarely ever remember my dreams and when I do they have nothing to do with the situations going on around me. I only seem to remember the dreams where the zombie is chasing me and I have to escape as soon as possible, or the more prevalent dream where I am pregnant without ever having intercourse and no one believes that I am still a virgin. Sorry to throw that in there, and if anyone feels the need to decipher what that means please tell me. I know that I dream almost every night, but I don’t ever remember the common dreams. To answer the question about whether people with more vivid dreams are different than others I think maybe so.I happen to have no artistic capabilities and rarely see myself rising to the challenge to think of a design or anything to do with art. I may never know if it is a reason why I am not artistic or not.
ReplyDelete-Abigail Blose
I find that this theory might be plausible, but I believe it obviously doesn’t apply to every dream (as the above commenters agree). Instead, I’ve found that my dreams often relate to things that are heavy on my mind (or that worry me the most). For example, I often dream about being late or forgetting to go to class. Perhaps our minds are still working on our worries and problems as we sleep?
ReplyDeleteI’ve often had dreams that were so vivid that I felt sick or depressed the rest of the day, usually because I was upset that it wasn’t real. Perhaps our dreams are ways to take our deep, subconscious thoughts out of the depths of our minds so that we may either move past them or work towards them.
I agree with Linzi, in many ways this theory is quite believable but it does not apply to every dream that a person has. Many cases have proven that people dream about things they would not want to happen, would want to happen or things that they never thought about. These dreams prepare a person for future references in the case that they fall into similar instances or the very same instances. There are also dreams that never show what can happen in reality, this in my opinion shows a person’s true imagination. Some have dreams about mythical creatures chasing them or they dream they can fly and have superhuman abilities. These things are not possible to happen in reality, and in no way can prepare someone for real situations yet people dream about them. I remember most of my dreams, especially when they are related to fantasies and situations I would want to happen or would not want to happen. People who have vivid dreams and remember them are not different from people they don’t. In my opinion it depends on what your brain wants to remember. The ability to remember dreams does have the effect to prepare a person for certain situations, but not constantly.
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